Aja Evans is a speaker and soon-to-be author of her debut book, Feel Good Finance. She is the incoming President of the Financial Therapy Association, consults with fintech companies, and has been featured in major news outlets such as The New York Times, Business Insider, NerdWallet, and CNBC.
Today, we discuss the essentials of a good relationship, such as managing finances as a couple, handling income swings, and dividing household responsibilities. She discusses joint finances, separate accounts, and the importance of early money conversations in relationships.
Key Takeaways
Early money conversations in relationships are crucial for aligning financial goals and expectations.
Managing monthly income swings requires careful budgeting and preparation, especially in professions with variable income.
Dividing household responsibilities and tasks requires open communication and understanding of each other's preferences and strengths. Open communication is crucial for managing household responsibilities and addressing financial disagreements within a marriage.
Understanding one's money story and its influence on financial decisions is essential for a healthy financial relationship within a marriage.
Aja's upcoming book, Feel Good Finance, focuses on the importance of understanding individual money stories and their impact on financial beliefs and patterns within a marriage.
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Listener Notes
0:00 Introduction
1:09 Can you introduce yourselves and give us a brief background on your journey together as a couple?
5:02 How do you divide your finances as a couple?
9:20 How did you approach your initial conversations about money?
10:15 What was your approach to paying off the student loans you brought into the marriage?
12:14 How do you ensure both partners have a say in financial decisions?
16:12 How do you handle managing significant swings in household monthly income?
18:14 How do you divide the tasks needed to run your home?
25:04 What advice do you have for other couples who struggle with financial disagreements?
33:30 Changing gears for a moment, can you share a bit about your upcoming book Feel Good Finance?
37:00 How can couples with two different money stories work through their differences?
42:08 What is one piece of simple and actionable advice you can share with our listeners?
Click here to order or Preorder Aja’s book, Feel Good Finance: Untangle Your Relationship with Money for Better Mental, Emotional, and Financial Well-Being
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Transcript
Brian (00:04)
Can you tell my glasses are crooked? Is it just me? There we go. All right. Asia, we are honored to have you join us for our podcast today. Thank you for joining.
Aja (00:10)
I was like, they don't look crooked.
Thank you for having me, Brian. I'm so excited.
Brian (00:23)
Well, we wanna dive straight in and first learn a little bit about you and your husband. So can you perhaps introduce yourself and your husband and give us a brief background on your journey as a couple together?
Aja (00:37)
Sure, so my name is Asia Evans. I'm a financial therapist. My husband's name is Cyrus. He is a manager for a Benjamin Moore paint outlet or retail outlet. You know, sometimes we have to like make sure we get it right what our spouses does. So we have been together 10 years. We've been married for seven. We just celebrated our anniversary last Monday. So that was great.
Brian (01:02)
congratulations.
Aja (01:03)
Thank you, thank you. Yeah, about us, we met through mutual friends at a party the same weekend that we got married. So Memorial Day weekend, kicking off summer, that sort of thing. We didn't really speak at the party very much, but later on he Facebook messaged me because that's what we were doing at the time. We were not sliding into DMs. Well, kind of, same thing at that point, but.
Brian (01:28)
Yeah.
Aja (01:29)
From there we started dating at the time we were both in Boston. A year later, not even a year later, I'm sorry, two months later, I told him on our second date that I was moving back to New York City. So I moved two months later and I had no idea that I had fallen in love and then he came to visit me in New York and as he was walking up the stairs, I will never forget the moment, I was like, my God, I'm in love, shit.
because I had been very adamant that I had no interest in doing a long distance relationship and I did not want to do the Boston, New York kind of thing before. Again, I had done it before and I was not interested. But you know, love had other plans. So we did long distance for a year and then he moved to New York City. We moved in together and that's pretty much.
What happened? We bought a house in the suburbs in New Jersey and got a dog, found out I was pregnant a week later, had a baby, a year later got pregnant, had another baby, and here we are.
Brian (02:32)
And how old are your children now?
Aja (02:35)
They will be three and five in the next like 30 to 60 days. Yeah. My dog will be six in September. So it's July, three year old, August, five year old, September, six year old dog. Mm -hmm.
Brian (02:39)
And then your dog is six or no, your dog is five in one week, I guess.
Okay, so you now live in essentially the New York City metro area with two children and daycare and you're a homeowner. So I'm imagining you make about $7 million a year to afford that.
Aja (02:59)
Yep.
I'll be honest, I feel like I need to be making $7 million a year to afford it. I am consistently impressed at how we make it happen because it's not easy and it's very, very expensive and can be very, very stressful. But we're heading out the door of daycare very excited.
Brian (03:28)
Well, let's talk about how you make it happen because it's it is obviously in the top of the minds of many people, particularly on the coasts who have young children who are in the housing market or perhaps they've recently purchased a home before or after interest rates, you know, went way up. And, you know, it's the the headline of the news almost every week when you see something has happened, the childcare costs of.
gone above $20 ,000 a child on average, or the average home is like 450 ,000, which I'm assuming in the New York metro areas on the low side. So yeah, let's talk about how you do it. And if you wouldn't mind, I would love to know first, how do you just divide your finances as a couple?
Aja (04:19)
Yeah, so we are pretty jointed. So, and this is what I say, I do the same thing that I kind of advise to my clients as well. So after we got married, we had to, listen.
audience, please talk to your partner about your money. Please talk to your partner about your money very early on. I was adamant about having those conversations before we got married, so we knew what we were hoping to do in terms of our family's financial system before we got married. And then once we got married, it was kind of like time to make sure we took action. So we have a joint account. The joint
checking and savings account, that's where a majority of our money gets kind of like dumped into direct deposits going into that account. The savings account that's attached to it is kind of more like emergency, like quick use emergency fund, if you will. And then we have a high yield savings account, which is kind of like longer term savings that if you don't need to pull something from that in like a day or quick notice, you know, things happen, accidents happen, you have to call a plumber, that sort of thing.
Brian (05:07)
Okay, yeah.
Aja (05:23)
We're actually in the process of buying a car, so that money that we had been putting aside in our high -yield savings account is now being shifted over into our...
our joint checking account so that we can put a down payment on the car. And then we also, and I advise this to my clients as well, each have our own separate checking and savings account. So I think it's important that he has his money, that he can just do whatever he wants with it, as well as I wanna have some money that I do whatever I want with it. So we take a smaller chunk from our...
our like work check and put it into our checking account and then whatever you save you save on your own. I advise people best practices to have some money just in case awful situation happens that you know you need to make sure that you are safe and you have some place to live and you can acquire a home without having to worry about a home and when I say home it could be like an apartment somewhere to live a van I don't care where it is you just need to make sure you're safe but
that money in our each of our own savings accounts too so I don't have access to that and he doesn't have access to mine we talk about it if we want to but yeah it's our money to do fun things with.
Brian (06:36)
What percentage of your overall household income do you contribute into the separate accounts?
Aja (06:44)
I wouldn't even say if it's like a percentage, it's very small. So maybe like a hundred, couple hundred dollars in terms of like paycheck. It's like spending money. It's, hey, you wanna get lunch, you wanna go to drinks with friends, you wanna get coffee every single day this week. Great, like spend your money however you want. So that's kind of how we pull it. Before when we were younger and didn't have kids, like from the joint account, that's where we would go shopping for clothes. When it was just the two of us, we like,
Brian (06:48)
That's why I figured.
yeah.
Aja (07:14)
So that's where it would come out. But now it's kind of like more of a discussion, like, OK, if we're going like family shopping, it's all coming from the joint.
But that's the kind of thing that kind of like just happens. But we also have a call it like unofficial spending limits type of thing. Like if he went and spent a hundred dollars on something like, yeah, I really needed pants or something came up and I left my card at home or something like, OK, I came from the joint. That's fine. But if he's going out and spending five hundred dollars on something else, I'd be like, what are you doing? We'd have a come. We would definitely have a conversation about that. And that's very mutual. We'd both talk to each other about it.
Brian (07:47)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's interesting. We kind of have my wife and I this a similar threshold, you know, anything that's over $100. And we just have everything shared. But we just I don't know, we never talked about this threshold. We just naturally decided, hey, anything over this, let's let's send each other a text or something, say, Hey, are you good with this? So we're not surprised. And it works out well for us. I now
as a financial professional, you probably have a proclivity to start talking about money early in a relationship, but not everybody does. I'm curious, how did you go about having that conversation with him?
Aja (08:27)
CS.
Well, when we met, it was kind of the beginning of my own personal finance journey. So I was learning a lot and I couldn't stop talking about it. So I would talk to anybody about it who would listen. And when I also realized that we were getting serious, I was like, we need to have a conversation, one, about what it looks like financially for you to move to New York City. Like, it's just expensive here and it's going to be more expensive than the rent that you were paying before. But also,
Brian (08:43)
Okay.
Aja (09:02)
what are our goals, as well as like, hey, we're gonna be moving in. I still have student loan debt, so I was like, I wanna talk about this with you. This is where I'm at. So it was definitely a conversation that we were having pretty early on because that's when I was learning and I would talk to anybody who would listen about it then.
Brian (09:24)
You know that having at least one partner carry student loans into a relationship is becoming pretty common. How did that conversation go and then how did you all handle it? Did you pay it off together? Did you pay it off? Can you walk us through that?
Aja (09:42)
Yeah, so before we were married, I solely was paying it off by myself. And now at the point, I still have them. They're my graduate loans, so it's a hefty amount of money. So now it just comes from the joint. It's part of our...
Brian (09:53)
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Aja (09:59)
part of our joint like budgeted expenses for the family that this payment is going to be coming out. So it's not kind of like, it wasn't a conversation of like, hey, I need you to do this for me while we're paying this off. It was very much so like, okay, yes, it is from my education. That's really important. But he was also aware like, listen, I may have more savings than you do right now to add to some of our bigger purchases, but you will be making more money than me. So.
he's looking at it as it would equal out. So that's kind of how we touched upon it and having those conversations. But now student loan debt is kind of like, this is just part of our budget. We pay for it. We know that, you know, kids out of daycare, things change. And once that does happen, then we can kind of be more aggressive with paying off in a different kind of way. But for now, yeah, it just comes out of the joint, very family expense. Everyone's benefiting.
Brian (10:51)
Yeah. And that's exactly how we look at it too. My wife came into the relationship with student debt and it's just, it's not any different than someone coming in, in my opinion, into the relationship with like a car debt or I mean, well, actually I shouldn't say it that way. The difference is that the car debt is, I'm not a fan of, but the student loan debt is something where you've invested in yourself and you're going to be experiencing greater income as a result.
So anyhow, yeah, I was curious because there's just so many people that are going through that process. I love how you handle that. Now, obviously you two work together to manage money. How is it that you make sure that you're both kind of like on the same page and you both have a say in significant financial decisions?
Aja (11:41)
Yeah, so as you can imagine, because I'm somebody who really likes finance and talking about this, I talk about it all the time. So I check our accounts. I'm usually one who manages our budgets and our money and that sort of thing. But I pretty much tell him almost immediately when it's happening, hey, this is what's going on. You're going to see this large sum of money come into the account. That's for the car. We talked about this, but I'm reminding you.
Brian (11:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aja (12:09)
that sort of thing don't go crazy it's kind of like a running joke like there's going to be more money in there don't go like on a shopping spree type of thing don't go crazy but a lot of it is having those conversations i would suggest to people and i say this to my clients too having a money date is fantastic and it's ideal
I am an external processor. So for me, it is very hard to hold on to kind of what I'm thinking about until the money date. And this is one of those moments that's kind of like do as I say, not as I do type of thing. I will talk to my husband about money like when we're about to go to sleep. This is not cute, sexy pillow talk. He...
Brian (12:40)
Hmm. Hahaha!
Aja (12:53)
He does not like it. He doesn't mind it because he knows me really well and he knows that this is just what's on my mind before I go to sleep type of thing. So he's okay with it and I'll ask him like, can we talk about money really quick? And he's like, no Asia, we can't. So I'm like, fine, fine, fine. But ideally it would be really great if I could just.
Brian (13:08)
Hahaha!
Aja (13:18)
cool it for a money date and then have those conversations. And we still set the money date, but I'll still tell him as it comes up, up until.
Brian (13:27)
Yeah, it what I have found doing, I don't know how many podcasts we've done now, but whether these these podcast episodes or numerous conversations, is there a lot of folks who have relationships where of the two couples, one of them is like you or me. And then the other one's kind of a shoulder shrug when it comes to money conversations, as long as they're in the loop, as long as they feel like, OK, you know, I know what's going on. But I was talking to Dr. Streeve.
Aja (13:51)
Mm -hmm.
Brian (13:56)
from our advisory board about this. And I mean, she brought up that because she has studied like basically opposites, people who are opposites in cross -class marriages. And she said that oftentimes it's that balance that people are attracted to, where one person is bringing something to the table the other person doesn't have and there's admiration of as a result of that. So it sounds like that's what that you all have. Yeah.
Aja (14:20)
Yeah, very, very much. So I sometimes I describe myself as like a hot air balloon. Like I'm like, I would just like, hey, we should move. Let's try living here for a little bit. Let's go to a different country. He's like Asia. No, he very much so is an anchor for me to then come back to like, no, I like my life. Like I love the life that we've built together, but I'm also so interested and curious about other ways of living or.
Brian (14:32)
Hahaha.
Aja (14:48)
doing things. So we are definitely a balance that way. We're a balance when it comes to like that financial piece. We're a balance when it comes to emotional level. Like I have tons of feelings and I want to talk about them. And he tends to, when he has his feelings, is more quiet and internalizes them and then we'll kind of share. But it is a beautiful balance. I'm very grateful for it because it's a lot sometimes. I'm a lot sometimes.
Brian (14:49)
Right.
I, and you know, one of the things that struck me when we were talking at, I think it was FT or a FinCon, I don't remember what conference we were talking, but that his, he has a steady paycheck, right? And that, and the nature of your profession, there's more income swings, like from one month to the next. And you know, that for American households is a significant challenge. Some American households is a significant challenge. I want to say,
Aja (15:23)
Mm -hmm.
Brian (15:45)
that it's like one in four American households have a no no 33 % of American households have a monthly income change of 25 % or greater from one month to the next which is a lot right so How is it that that you two manage those monthly income swings
Aja (15:59)
Yep.
Yeah, so I try to manage it like in my business almost so I no matter what am usually taking the same amount.
like paying myself the same amount monthly, regardless of what's happening with my income swing. So I leave room in my own like business savings to allow for the like dips. So it's summertime right now, notoriously during this time, people feel better, they're sunshine, they're in community with one another. They don't really either want to talk about their money that much because they want to just have a good time and not worry about it. Or they feel really good mentally and physically. So they're like, hey, I don't,
Brian (16:19)
Okay.
Aja (16:45)
I can back down some of my sessions. So just summertime in general for therapists tends to be like a dip. That's just the cadence of our years. But I try to prepare for that throughout the year. So just paying myself the same amount. I pay myself on a weekly basis. So paying myself weekly and then.
allowing for the savings to cover if something shifts dramatically. And usually it's not too too dramatic, which I'm grateful for. But it does happen and you're right, like there is a swing. So I try to buffer.
Brian (17:21)
And those swings are not just financial swings, but I would imagine that they're swings in how you spend your time. Is that right? Like profession. So knowing that, you know, you have three kids, two children and a dog, I'm a dog lover. They're part of the family. I consider them, I consider them a child. The least mine was. So anyway, the...
Aja (17:30)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Brian (17:46)
How do you, knowing that kind of your responsibilities change from one day to the next, and I'm imagining your husband has a commute, how do you manage the home, right? I mean, that's a business in itself. How do you all divide those tasks?
Aja (17:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, it took us some time and we had to figure it out as a couple just when it was just the two of us and then we had to reorient when we started having kids and the dog and then we had to reorient again when the kids started getting older. So I would say we're probably in the best place that we have been because our kids are toddlers but you, I.
feel the difference from where we were at when they were like newborns or couldn't walk or couldn't get something for themselves or couldn't tell you they needed some water or they were hungry. It's so, so different. So those like different phases of life will require you to have these kinds of conversations. So now I think we just understand and I feel the time a lot more just because my work has changed since we had our first to now, but.
I like doing some of the stuff around the house. So if I have extra time, like before this podcast, I had to gap on my schedules, like great, I'm gonna work out. I would have never done that.
two years ago. Two years ago, the house would have been screaming at me that I need to do laundry or do these other things or this is really important. So the way we kind of divided it up, like I hate doing dishes. I'm going to be honest, I hate doing dishes. So it's kind of again, another running joke. We laugh a lot here. So he'll say, Asia, are you doing the dishes? I'm like, no. And he knows I'm not kidding, even though it's funny for both of us. But I know it is my job to
Unload the dishwasher, unload the drying rack, put the dishes away because I know I do not like doing dishes. So sometimes I'll do them, but honestly, I really don't do dishes. I don't. I don't. I'll own it. I...
Brian (19:45)
You
Aja (19:49)
Don't mind doing laundry. So we'll do the laundry together. I hate like i'll do the laundry He does his own laundry because it just got overwhelming. It was too much But we'll fold together. So I don't mind doing it, but we'll fold all of the laundry Together like after we put the kids down that sort of thing. So it was really just hey what's working and we both can tell when the house stuff and the house chores are getting out of hand because we both
Brian (19:57)
Yeah.
Aja (20:14)
get uncomfortable. It's like looking around the house is becoming overstimulating. There's too much stuff around. We need to clean up so he can tell when I'm getting a little uneasy and I can tell when he's getting a little uneasy. And if one of the other just needs time, like, hey, I just need to clean this up. Can you?
Brian (20:18)
Hmm.
Aja (20:29)
like go outside with the kids and play or just give me some time. I just want to like heads down focus and not worry about it, then we're both okay with that. So it's a lot of communication. It's a lot of this is going to drive me crazy. I need to do this before passing go type of thing.
Brian (20:44)
who handles anything related to healthcare with the kids.
Aja (20:50)
me. Definitely. Like, by far, I still, like, he is an open, willing, helpful partner, of course. He is very, very present. But I still, like, manage the house. And when I say manage, to your point of, hey,
Brian (20:52)
That is so much worth.
Yeah.
Aja (21:10)
Like healthcare, like I have doctors on speed dial. I know where the dentist is. Like I know what's going on. I'm like, Hey honey, where is the HSA card? And he's like, I don't know. I'm like, it should be in your wallet. I have one, you have one. Where's yours? That sort of thing. So I buy in far definitely manage the house, but he knows his role and happily slips into the role to like make it happen. He has said on many occasions like Asia.
you are gonna go be the president. Like you are the president and I'm happy to be your VP. I'm happy to play a supporting role to this that works for me. And I'm like, great. And then there are many times that I'm like, did you make a decision? Like I happily defer to him because sometimes I don't wanna do it all. But it's been 10 years. So it's taken us some time to get to this point.
Brian (21:56)
Yeah.
Aja (22:04)
Yeah, and I remember when I told him he ate Monk Dill and I was like, you're not a bad boyfriend, but you are a bad roomie.
Brian (22:09)
Hahaha!
Aja (22:11)
And I said that and it was true and it was the first year that we had lived together. And those first few months and I was like, you're not a bad boyfriend, you're a great boyfriend, but like, you're not a great roommate right now and I need you to just like show up.
Brian (22:28)
love how he kind of takes that position of, you know, I'm, I'm the VP, but more of more of probably like laissez faire kind of relaxed. And and I've learned over the years that the more that I can kind of go with the flow, with things where I'm not super passionate, the easier everything gets. Because my wife's very much like, she's regimented. She's, she's like on the go all the time.
And yeah, and I'm, you know, when it comes to anything with the house, you know, like I would live in a studio apartment and not own a car if I wasn't married. I wouldn't spend any money at all. And I recognize that that's not normal. So, you know, I just kind of like go with it. Here's our budget. Are you good with this? Here's what we make. We have to spend less than what we make. And I feel like that.
Aja (23:24)
Right.
Brian (23:26)
like you, it makes things easier. But those are, I mean, that's not something that's structured in a system. That's just more of a personality combination, I think, between spouses. So not everything is perfect in a marriage, and there's always going to be financial disagreements. I know that Hope and I have had quite a few over the years. How is it that you've handled your financial disagreements? And do you have like one specific example you think that...
you know, the listeners can draw from and learn how to manage financial disagreements themselves with how you handled it.
Aja (24:03)
Yeah, I think in the past there have been times where we were on the same page about what we wanted and what we're trying to get to, but he wasn't ready to kind of sit down and have those conversations. Like I said, he's more of an internal processor and kind of will sit in his feelings and is okay there versus me. I'm like, but I care so much and like what's going on and all this passion is coming forth and probably bombarding him, which is not at all what I want to do. So.
When there have been times where I have been more financially stressed, but to me it appears as if he is not stressed or is not thinking about it, is just going about his life. That has caused friction for us because I'm like, do you not care? Like, what are we going to do? Like, help. So that.
Brian (24:43)
Mm -hmm.
Aja (24:52)
friction of me wanting to externally process and talk about it and just be in it together and him needing space and time to just think about what was going on, look at the numbers, think about how he felt about it and then come back and have a conversation was definitely something that we had a lot of trouble with. And.
The thing that we would do is that I would have to realize that like I had to back down like I needed to just stop and give him the space and the time to make sense of it all to decide what was going on and then come back and that was very very hard for me. And I'm grateful that I have the therapy skills that I do because I had to tell myself.
Asia, you can't force him to talk about this right now. Even though you are uncomfortable, you have to sit in your discomfort and then come back together because it's not worth causing this much friction in your marriage. That's not what you want. You want both of you to be on the same team. So I'd be like, do you need space right now? Even though I'm like, I wanna talk about it.
Brian (25:42)
Yeah.
Aja (26:02)
and just give him the space and say, okay, can we talk about this on Friday? And then schedule the money date to be like, let's sit down and really look at the numbers. I wanna hear your opinions. Like, I'm overwhelmed or I'm worried. Let's just sit and talk about it. So open communication is definitely something I'm always going to be a champion of. Being yourself, like your partner needs to know who you are. Definitely know like who you are to your core so that when you are...
Freaking out or worried or silent. It's not shutting the other person down to make you think that they don't want to be there It's just their way of going through a stressful situation or having hard conversations
Brian (26:45)
What are some of the, let me ask it this way, have there been patterns in your clients that really stick out of specific challenges that trigger couples into financial disagreements?
Aja (27:03)
Yeah, I mean, I think my example of what happened with me and Cyrus was one of them. Just like one person is really caring, is really, really like jazzed up about the money, whether that is just feeling uncomfortable about it or just like, hey, let's tackle these goals really aggressively. And the other person is a little bit more nonchalant. I think that can cause a lot of friction for people not talking about money at all.
in their relationship I think definitely causes a lot of friction because you get you know you get into the groove like I said like my own story you get a house you have kids dogs jobs all the things are happening and then you look up it's 10 years later and you're like wait I don't I don't really know what's going on with the accounts or where they are how they're housed and then I would say spending discrepancies definitely come up for people so
Brian (27:28)
Hmm.
Aja (27:56)
this person's spending too much money or I don't think we need to spend that much money or the kids need these things. I can't let the kids go without these things. But do they really need those things? So just kind of the back and forth between I want to spend less money, I want to spend more money and how do we come together to feel like we're on the same page as a family to meet our goals.
Brian (28:03)
Hmm.
Yeah, I feel like that some of the greatest challenges we faced is what when we're trying to figure out how much to provide for our children opportunities, whether it's education or whether it's how they feel about themselves or the clothes or whatever, like, like, what's the line between what's enough? What's the line between spoiling them, which you don't want to do, but but also making sure that that they're happy and that.
That has been a really big challenge for us.
Aja (28:49)
Yep.
Yeah, and you know what, I'll be honest, I think it's gonna be a really big challenge for me too, because this is when it starts to kind of brush up against your own money story and what felt important to you when you were growing up. And I share a lot about this.
Brian (29:06)
Right?
Aja (29:10)
in my book because I think it's important for people to realize where they're coming from. So Feel Good Finance is the name of my book and I really dive into the importance of understanding your own money story. So for me, I grew up very, very financially comfortable for where I lived.
We had decent things and had a nice life and I was comfortable. But my mom did not prioritize like clothing in the way that some of the other kids' parents prioritize clothing. So for me, it was like, I'm going shopping at Limited Too and I'm a millennial. So these things were like really important at the time. I'm going shopping at like, not Limited Too, at Old Navy.
that sort of store where other people were shopping at limited to or were going to abracambi and having those moments and i'm like Old Navy's cool and I don't mind how I look I look i'm fitting in well enough but I want that and my mom was not going to spend 50 to 60 dollars on a pair of jeans at the time
when I'm in like middle school, it just was not a priority to her. I had my like one or two pairs of nice sneakers for the year and that was good, but there was not going to be some kind of like, hey, it's the middle of the year for no reason this cute pair of sneakers came out. I'm gonna get it for you. Like that just wasn't my story. So now I know that there's gonna be a part of me that to be honest with you wants to keep up with the Joneses with my kids. Like I want them to have enough that they fit in, but not...
Brian (30:46)
Yeah.
Aja (30:47)
feel like they are at the top of the stylistic food chain because they're buying all the things and all of the labels. I want them to understand the importance of you matter more than what you're wearing, but I want what you're wearing to exude who you are. I do believe that what we wear in our clothing is another outward expression of who we are, and that is important, but I don't want it to only be like, I'm decked out in Lulu, and I've got these fresh Jordans on, and this is what's going on.
And trying to find that balance is going to be very hard for me because I know how I felt when I didn't get some of that stuff or wanted that stuff. And I understand we had plenty of clothes and it was fine. But as a kid, it doesn't as a kid, it doesn't feel that way. It's like I'm not cool because I don't have those sneakers.
Brian (31:21)
Yeah.
I, well, actually that specific example that I remember that in my sixth in sixth grade, just one of the kids got the Jordan fours. You know, I still had shoes with Velcro on them and like the zipper with you put your lunch money in this inside the zipper, the bruise. and I thought, my God, those are great. And I, and it was, I don't know if it was a status symbol. I guess that would be when you're a kid. but.
Aja (31:49)
Yep. Yep.
Brian (32:01)
you know, kind of like taking a step back, I'm glad you brought up your book because that's what I wanted to talk about next. Can you tell the listeners a little bit about Feel Good Finance? I know it's not out yet. Can you pre -purchase the book? Okay, okay.
Aja (32:15)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, yep, so it's available for pre -order wherever you get your books. So you can go on Barnes and Noble or bookshop, Amazon, whatever. Perfect.
Brian (32:26)
We're going to put a link in our podcast notes for people to do that. Yeah. So tell us about Feel Good Finance.
Aja (32:32)
Yeah, so it comes out on December 3rd. So you can do the pre -order now. You just have to wait just under six months, literally like yesterday was a six month date. But feel good finance really is about how do we understand who we are and how our psychology as humans as well as our life experiences impact what we do with money. And the way I kind of go through and explain it is to.
talk about certain instances where you may be not spending money or overspending money and how that may be actually talking about more about who you are as a person. So whether that's self -esteem, whether that is the example of what we just named, you know, status symbols or keeping up with the Joneses, those things matter. Actually, one of the chapters is literally called Keeping Up With The Joneses.
Brian (33:21)
Hahaha.
Aja (33:22)
because it is so important to understand why we do the things that we do with our money and why sometimes it's hard for us to break some of our patterns even though we know we shouldn't be doing it.
Brian (33:37)
My dad told me, I remember in high school, my dad sharing his feeling about the Joneses. My dad hates the Joneses. And we had a station wagon that it was so bad that it was recruited and sold to somebody to be entered in the Clinton County demolition derby. And it won. So you can imagine this was like, those were the cars that we drove. So my dad told me that one of his colleagues at work.
Aja (33:47)
Ha ha ha.
Mm -hmm. Yep.
Brian (34:06)
He was like, he's a Jones. Then he drove a really nice car, like something exorbitant, like a Porsche or something. So he said that he would purposely find the Porsche in the parking lot and pull up really close to it in that dumpy station wagon close enough where it was hard to open the door. So the guy would would panic every day. He took like pride in the fact that he he drove he drove this dumpy dumpy car. And I'm bringing up this this story because I think that that story.
Aja (34:12)
Yep.
Brian (34:34)
of who he is and how those kinds of decisions and conversations he had with me as a kid kind of shaped my relationship with money now. Because I find that quite funny. I don't really care about most material things. I do love shoes. But you know, for the most part, it's just not a part of who I am. It's not a part of my money story.
And the reason that I want to talk about feel good finances, because I feel like that that can be at the core of a lot of financial disagreements, because my wife, on the other hand, grew up in a house where they always had a brand new car and they, you know, they lived in a, you know, nice house, but they didn't necessarily have, you know, much savings as an example. It looked more like the Joneses, like outwardly, they looked like they were doing well. And, and so she has her own money story as a result. And those two things, butt heads.
Aja (35:28)
Mm -hmm. Yep.
Yes.
Brian (35:34)
Right? So can you give an example from the book of how you have one spouse's money story that might be pretty different than the other spouses and how those two things come to a head and how they work through it?
Aja (35:48)
Yeah, so I will say that like.
The main focus, the book is more individual. So I really want people and I wanna encourage people to kind of look within themselves to do exactly what you said like, I realize why I don't really care about some of the materialistic things is because my dad literally was having these conversations and that's not what we prioritize in our budgets and with our money. So now I'm realizing how you go forth, right? That's for you, but your wife, for her, the book is really about how...
similar to you how she would say I Realized that I always had these things like this is what was a priority in my family and I understand kind of the financial position we were in because of that now what am I currently doing with my money because of that and now how do we both now that we Understand what we're doing with our money because I really do believe majority of our money believes
are coming from our childhood, are coming from what we saw, how we lived when we were younger, and then translate into what we do as an adult, you know, in spite of or despite of type of thing, and understanding where you're coming from as an individual so then you can decide what's going on with you as a couple. So one of the stories I really talk about in the book is just the importance of...
any partner, but I really do focus on women because I'm a woman and the majority of my clients are women as well, specifically black women, but the importance of being involved in your finances and how frequently when people were younger, it was kind of like, don't worry about the money. Don't worry, it will be fine. Just do what you need to do, get good grades in school, go to college, not go to college, get a job, whatever it might be.
It wasn't, especially for females, it wasn't very financially focused in terms of like, hey, how do we make sure that we're hitting all our financial milestones and getting to a place where we feel good financially? But what happens when you're now coupled? Do you want to put all that pressure on your spouse? Can they handle it? Do they know what they're doing with their finances? There's this.
I think we are pulling back the layer, but this is ubiquitous feeling as if, I'm married now the other person's going to handle it because I don't do that. And how does that then inform how you feel about your finances and then also how they feel about the finances. So a lot of it is really based on understanding yourself and then understanding what patterns came out of your childhood and then decide, Hey, does this work for me today? Is this.
Brian (38:15)
Mm -hmm.
Aja (38:32)
in service of my goals, yes or no, and now how do I communicate with my spouse about it? How do I name, hey, I really care about materialistic things. And it sounds negative to say it, but there's a part of people who really do care. I care, right? Like, it's okay. Materialistic isn't, I think there's a lot of negative connotation around it, but it's like, if you like nice things, that's fine. I just want to make sure you can afford them. That's it. Like, that is it.
Brian (38:58)
Right. Right. Yeah.
Aja (39:02)
So let's have a conversation of, hey, I wanna have nice things. I understand that we can't be getting the kids new sneakers once a month, right? They don't need to have fresh white sneakers every single time they step foot outside, but I know that this is gonna be something that comes up. How can we work together to make sure that we're tackling this in a way that feels good for our family finances, but then also feels good for me and feels good for them. On the other side, hey.
I also don't want to be too wasteful. Let's make sure that we're sustainable with what we're buying for our kids. I don't want to be adding to a ton of waste. How can we make this work for both of us? So it's really about understanding your story so that you can change your patterns to reach the goals that you want to reach.
Brian (39:47)
Well, I'm definitely gonna purchase the book and I'm gonna read the book. I'm looking forward to it. I feel like that of all the different, let's say, let's say myths, the myths around marriage and money is that it's about numbers and it's really about, you know, who you are as a human being and money is just a tool to express that. That's all it is. And if you don't understand kind of,
where your feelings about money derive from. How are you gonna take the time to understand your spouses? How are you gonna take the time to kind of work through those differences? Because ultimately, you can have the best possible marriage. You can have two people who are financially literate, but you're still going to have disagreements when you have different money stories that have to be worked through. So I do want, I like to end.
the podcast with one way in which you want to help our listeners. One piece of simple, actionable advice that they can take in their life right now and apply it to their own financial world or their financial world within their marriage. So if you could do that, what would it be?
Aja (41:04)
your money. Talk about your money, whether it's once a week, once a month, you just have to talk about it and know where it all is. Like know the landscape of your financial life.
Brian (41:17)
This was a great time.
Aja (41:19)
Yes, it was. I was like, I could talk about this forever.
Brian (41:21)
I know, I know. This has been fun. Well, thanks for joining us. Again, folks, buy Asia's book, Feel Good Finance. You can pre -order it now. You can go to our show notes to find the link to do that.
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