Although this episode of the Modern Husbands Podcast is not pushed out until November 6th, you can listen to the embedded episode now.
Adrian Brambila, the son of immigrant parents from Mexico, rose to TikTok stardom by redefining “real wealth,” and showcasing his journey of earning $1.7 million in one year while living in a van.
Bradley T. Klontz, Psy.D., CFP® is a financial psychologist, professor, and researcher who has co-authored eight books on the psychology of money. He comes from a broken family and grew up poor but still became a millionaire in his 30s. Today, he is the world’s leading expert in the psychology of money.
They are today’s guests and the coauthors of the book, Start Thinking Rich, which is precisely what we will talk about on today’s episode.
Modern Husbands Podcast Episode
00:00 Introduction
01:46 What motivated you to read Start Thinking Rich
07:45 Only poor people think the system is rigged
13:00 How to avoid the wrong mentality
17:00 Poor people buy stuff, rich people own time.
30:32: If you want to get rich, go to college, get rich, and buy a house (or not)
34:45 Is it better to rent or buy a house?
40:42 Get a roommate, get on the bus, get sober, get bald, and get a side hustle or shut up and be poor
43:30 The ultimate side hustle for kids
48:20 It’s not your fault if you were born poor, but it’s your fault if you die poor.
54:45 One piece of simple and actionable advice for your marriage
Click here to purchase the book.
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Podcast Episode Transcript
Dr. Bruce Ross (00:01)
Dr. Brad, Andrea, and we're so, happy to have you on our podcast today. we're going to drop some truth bombs, I think on people, right? From your new book, start thinking rich 21 harsh truths to take you from broke to financial freedom. now you do actually have a lot of harsh truths and our listeners, if you get this book, you should get this book. As you read the titles and go through this, you're going to be like, Holy shit, what are they talking about? you're going to be amazed.
but I think it's gonna be a really strong read for you. But before we get into actually some of those harsh truths, I wanna just open with a quick question of like, what motivated you guys to write this book?
Adrian Brambila (00:47)
First of all, thank you for having us and also, know, our chapter titles, you know, they say harsh truths. Some of them can sound offensive, but there's a lot of love inside the chapters that go with context. you know, don't hold back either of you. Like feel free to grill us, ask questions that we, we already made the book, so we can't take it back. But, but for sure the underlying reason why we made this book is to help people make an impact.
Dr. Bruce Ross (01:05)
You really know that.
Adrian Brambila (01:12)
I mean, I don't know if there's any authors listening, but there's really not a lot of money in the book itself. We're not doing it for the money. It's for the impact. In fact, Brad and I are both entrepreneurs. have businesses that do produce cashflow. This is truly out of a love of impact and helping people. And on paper, Brad and I are completely opposite. He's a doctor and all edumacated. I'm not, we got connected. I was living in a van and talking about the fire movement and wealth.
Dr. Bruce Ross (01:35)
Thank you, David.
Adrian Brambila (01:42)
And having a super high income and living in a van, that's how it got viral and really popular. So we have completely different backgrounds, but our message is the same around this concept of what is, how to best use money and what does wealth actually mean? It's about time and choice and freedom and has nothing to do with objects and anything you can buy. It's just more having a choice and desire with your freedom. How do you spend that time? Some of the more deeper questions that
I think right now, if we look at algorithms on what they define as success or financial freedom, it doesn't look like that. looks like a Lamborghini in a mansion and flying private. And these things, as we say in our book and we aligned, in our tick talk, we made over 10 ,000 videos that same message. Like that's fake. It's superficial. And we're trying to keep it real and trying to wake people up.
Dr. Bruce Ross (02:19)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Brad (02:32)
Yeah, and so I am I'm a distinguished professor, of course, you know, blah, blah, And I do work with a bunch of ultra wealthy people managing assets and all that. This book, though, is is the manual that I wish I had when I was a low income teenager. And so there are several things about it. So first of all, we said things in a harsh manner.
And we did that on purpose because I found that to be probably the times that I've had the biggest shifts in my life is where someone gave it to me straight. Honestly, somebody loved me so much that they were willing to offend me by giving it to me straight. And I worked in a low income high school for about 20 years on Kwai. And I would say things in meetings with parents and teachers around the value of education and why it's so important to study.
And then I would, which by the way, I do believe, and then when I'd have the oppositional kid in my classroom, I would shut the door, make sure no one else is listening, and then I would just give it to him straight about why he should get good grades, and straight up because you're gonna make more money. Learning all these things is great, you know, and I would bust out the chart on educational attainment and income, and I'd be like, look, here's the game. The game is this. The further you get along this, the more money you're going to make.
Dr. Bruce Ross (03:32)
you
Dr. Brad (03:58)
and the less you're going to have to sweat. Okay, so this is why I kept going to school. So I got a doctorate because I realized that the more education I got, the less I would have to work, and more importantly, the less I would have to sweat. And so that was my rationale for staying in school. And so for each of these chapters, honestly, we did test them on social media. We had these concepts. We wanted to see which ones got people's attention. So that's how we worded them.
But these are also the harsh truths that I would tell you if I actually loved you.
Brian (04:32)
And I got to add on here. So I skimmed through the book, obviously, I've got the chapter titles in front of me. And I have not read the book in its entirety. I am frustrated I haven't it's because of lack of time. For other commitments. I just got it last week and I cannot wait to read it in detail. Again, I've skimmed it. And what my takeaway was is like, when I reviewed the chapter titles, and then the parts I skimmed in a couple chapters I read, this is how I talk to my kids.
This is how I talk to my own kids. And frankly, this is how I used to talk to my students. you know, the chapter title that sticks out to me is, complaining is for losers. Now I get it. If you're trying to not offend anyone, if you're trying to recognize that there are things that happen to you in your life that maybe might make it difficult to so -called win, I get that. I understand those things. But it doesn't do anybody any good to believe that complaining
Dr. Bruce Ross (05:03)
Mm
Brian (05:32)
is gonna ever lead to success. Complaining is for losers, is exactly what you tell your children if you want them to be successful. So that's what I love about the book that you wrote, Adrian and Brad, is that these are harsh truths that sometimes, you might be taken back a little bit. You might be subtly or slightly offended initially, but this is life. And if you're gonna work through life and the challenges that are in front of you,
you need to accept harsh truths and you dive into that in this book. So we are looking forward to talking about this book, learning more, and then making sure at the end folks know where to purchase the book.
Dr. Bruce Ross (06:12)
Yeah. And I actually just want to add on to that as well as that if you you're dropping some real truths here, you know, it's coming from a place of love, as both of you said, you know, it's not just to make people angry, but if it is striking a nerve, I think that is definitely a place that needs to be explored and have some like introspection about of like, why is this hitting a nerve? Why isn't it working for me?
Why am I not getting ahead because of this or that? So let's just jump into it. Let's start off with just only poor people think the system is rigged, right? Let's explore this harsh truth.
Adrian Brambila (06:49)
world
Dang, did we say that? Just kidding.
Dr. Brad (06:54)
I think that was your idea, Adrian. By the way, just blame, anytime there's any controversy around these chapters, I immediately just blame Adrian. Yeah, works out great.
Brian (06:54)
You
Dr. Bruce Ross (06:54)
So Adrian, take us away then.
Adrian Brambila (07:05)
And I do the same, I blame Brad.
Brian (07:05)
Hahaha.
Dr. Bruce Ross (07:05)
Hahaha
I mean, yeah, we're starting off harsh here, but.
Dr. Brad (07:11)
Hehehe
Adrian Brambila (07:12)
So the reality is the system, and we talk about what are the, what is the system that this, this country that we live in getting a nine to five education, we're talking about all the systems. They are actually rigged is reality. And, and by the way, first I want to take a step back. Poor. We're not talking about people that have no money. We're talking about a way of thinking. So poor is a mindset, just like rich is a mindset.
Dr. Bruce Ross (07:20)
Hmm.
Adrian Brambila (07:38)
And so you can be broke and have a rich mindset. You can also have a lot of money and have a poor mindset. So these things are really about ways of thinking. so, poor people or essentially a way of thinking is blaming the system that it's all rigged and that there's no way for you to change your, your current financial circumstance because everything is out to get you. And, and in this chapter, this is probably one where, I'm going to leave some of the
doctor stuff up to Brad, what he always brings up internal locus of control and stuff like that for him. But essentially it's where you place your blame. And if you think everything is out to get you and some places are, is a reality. It's just a, it's a losing scenario to put yourself in. Whereas like, think of my dad who immigrated here when he was 13 and it really wasn't my dad. was my grandma. My dad's dad was murdered when he was around five years old. So my grandma was raising four kids.
and then was commuting from Mexico to Southern California, try to save enough money, eventually brought all the family here. And when I think of someone like that, and I think of people that are born here and are complaining that the system's rigged and everything's out to get you and there's systemic problems and racism. I think of like an immigrant mindset that I've, even though I didn't immigrate here, I have this mindset that like, we actually left the bad country where we were getting killed and murdered and...
There was no food on the table. My, those are problems I'm never going to have, but I've learned through my parents and this country, it's not perfect, but this is, we left the bad place. This was the place we moved so we could actually change our circumstances. There are countries where you can't do that in, in, the country. I've just, if I wasn't for seeing what happened to my parents learning about, what they did saving and doing, making these like, I think I would call it today, a sacrifice to them that even call a sacrifice. For example,
Not buying clothes for four years. So they didn't have to spend money on clothes, not ever eating out for, for like in their mid twenties, they cooked all their meals. Like these are things like, you, if you mentioned that to like someone that graduates college today or someone, the young 20s, like, my God, I would never like, how do that's not, how would I live? Right. But to that immigrant mindset, they were willing to do all those things. And, and, and truly they, they set this mindset in me that was I can work in this country. I can work and change my circumstances to do hard work.
Dr. Bruce Ross (09:43)
Yeah.
Adrian Brambila (09:58)
and smart and smart work. And that's, that's, that's a mindset that is empowering versus another one that, that it states the chapter of the book is like, there's people who immigrate here to start with nothing and build stuff. The only difference is the way they think that the poor people, people that are born here are people that come here and they think it's all rigged. I'm never going to make it. How, what advice could you give to that person who thinks like that? You have to first change the way they think.
Dr. Brad (10:21)
Yeah, I'll say that, you know, is the system rigged? Well, I think it's a much better way, a much better mindset is to look at it as it's a game. So like, what game do you want to play? What game are you playing? First of all. And secondly, just it's a general understanding that things are absolutely unfair. I mean, there's we're not, we're not, we're not even trying to suggest that capitalism is the best system, by the way, like we are agnostic around that.
that's a matter of opinion. We would be, if we lived in a different system, we would have written a book on how to succeed in a communist system. You know, I'm sure there's a, there's a mindset for how to succeed in that particular system. I don't know what it is because I, I'm not growing up in one, but I can guarantee you this. would have spent my entire life trying to figure out how to succeed in that, in that game. And so we're reframing it as a game. And the bottom line is if you, if you.
Dr. Bruce Ross (11:05)
But it's still probably playing the game.
Dr. Brad (11:16)
are playing the, we use the example, if you're gonna go play football and you show up in your shorts and a pickleball paddle, you're gonna get destroyed. And you might feel like the entire system is rigged. And not only that, all the fans are booing you and hissing you. And everyone's just knocking you out and you're totally confused. And you might say, I'm never ever gonna play that game again. It's all rigged against me. And from the outside, you're looking at it going, dude, you didn't have the right equipment. You have no idea what the rules are.
You haven't been conditioning for this game. It's probably better to look at it like it's a game that you didn't prepare for, not that it was rigged against you, although that's how it would feel.
Dr. Bruce Ross (11:58)
So how do we move past this thought process of having this, guess, the poor mentality?
Adrian Brambila (12:09)
I think the first step is definitely awareness. A lot of people, including myself, I set on this traditional path on what I thought the clearest path to success was. And I think having awareness to just question, I in the right game? Am I in the right game? So I'll just share my example, my wife's example really quickly. For me, I always thought I wanted to be a marketing director at a marketing agency. And then...
And for a very brief moment, my life changed in college. I got the opportunity to dance professionally for T pain and I learned from YouTube. And so I had this original path. And then all of a sudden I was a living room dancer. Now a professional dancer for deep pain touring and doing all this stuff. I never thought I would have. And then I saw T pain launch a song right in front of me. And he like showed it beforehand. It was called reverse cowgirl, by the way, a terrible song. And it's also not a Western. wouldn't recommend looking it up. and.
When that song launched, he's like, Hey, this is back in the day iTunes or 99 cent downloads. And he's like, Hey, do you guys want to see it before? And we watched it and then he launched it. And then I watched him and I watched the analytics of the iTunes. It's at a hundred, like launch, you press the button, a hundred thousand, 500, a thousand, 1 million, 3 million, 5 million. basically watched him make millions of dollars in a few minutes. And that's kind of where I first had this awareness of like, wait, wait, wait. I thought success path was like go to college and work at it.
firm and then climb up the corporate ladder. And here's this guy, he's only five years older than me. He just made a million dollars in a few minutes. And then guess what he did after that? He didn't go back to the office. He got drunk. So I'm like, what's happening here? Like, and this is, this is where I had this awakening of like, there's actually multiple paths. There's multiple games. And I think, you know, celebrities and artists, people that like are really, they've done a really great job with lifestyle design, which is something that I don't think is really taught of like,
How do you design your life based off doing something that you love in your game? Like T -Pain, I was in customer service and I was like, I'm not meant to be in customer service. don't have a patience, right? But I was in the wrong game. I think, this awareness, like there's actually multiple games being played and you might be better served in a different one. like Brad's analogy is so good because if I would have kept, to produce T -Pain's results and make a million dollars in 10 minutes,
Dr. Bruce Ross (14:13)
Hmm.
Adrian Brambila (14:31)
Doing it at a call center at a, at a marketing agency, I would have never achieved that result because I'm, just in a completely different game where like, I'm not, I don't have followers or audience and I released a product. So I think awareness is, one of the, one of the biggest things is just a starting point of like, what game are you in? Is it the right game for you? and then I'll show my wife, she's someone that worked at Deloitte for eight years and her, her game was, I'm going to be a partner. I'm going to be a partner. And so, and she was on that path. She was committed.
And, and she was a hustler, one of those like exceptional people that got straight A's your whole life. And, when, when at her eighth year, she realized the path to actually get, to be a partner, even though she could have. She was on that path was like, it's actually not less, less work. It's actually more work, more responsibly. And now, and the income is there. Deloitte partners. They're making it. They're making a killing, but the last, the lifestyle design is not.
Dr. Bruce Ross (15:19)
Yeah.
yeah, they're making a ton.
Adrian Brambila (15:26)
So then that's when she was like, I'm actually think I'm in the wrong game. And because the game also doesn't have to do with money. It also has, I think lifestyle design is, a huge element of like what, what game you want to play. And so she switched and now, you know, she's, she's a CFO. worked together of our small, small company with the employees and, and, and although it's a walk in the park for her, she's much happier doing this than that grind of just a big four accounting firm, which, which is like, you know, 80 hour work weeks. They always say like, is it busy season?
It's like, it's always busy season.
Dr. Bruce Ross (16:01)
So continuing on with this kind of quote unquote poor mentality and then you mentioned lifestyle, Adrian, as this play into this concept of poor people buy stuff, rich people own time.
Dr. Brad (16:15)
Yeah, so we have a bunch of little mindset tests in this book. And one of the things that we really want to draw people's attention to is this poor mindset that we see all over social media. I actually, as soon as I say this, I start to get really mad. I get mad because it's one of the reasons I got on social media is because all these lies being pumped into these impressionable minds of kids who are like me.
who are looking around saying, know, our chapter one in our book is being poor sucks. And it truly does, you know. And people don't want to be poor. And especially people who are aware of it and have sort of a modicum of internal locus control, which Adrienne alluded to, which is this idea that the outcomes in my life, you I have the power to influence them. And so when you have that mindset, it's like, look, I got to do something different. You know, I want to have a different experience. I want to have a different life.
And so then what they see on social media are people flexing, you know, luxury brands and labels and all this. They're like, that's the key to success. And people literally will say this, well, maybe if I flex some luxury brands, then I'll get more business opportunities. Then people will look at me as if I have higher esteem. I mean, that's literally part of what's happening. They're being misinformed. And so we're really trying to twist it around and give what we think is the actual truth.
Like our definition of rich really has to do with financial freedom, not how much stuff you have. I know a lot of people who are broke that have plenty of stuff. your stuff, know, Adrian has great examples. He was a minimalist living in a van down by the river. His claim to fame, which he'll talk about, is he made $1 .7 million in a year living in a van. And people are like, whoa, that's not how rich people live. And really what we are doing is taking the research
Dr. Bruce Ross (17:53)
You
Dr. Brad (18:06)
And you know, as you know, I've done a bunch of research on rich people. How did they think? How did they spend? And the bottom line is that one study, for example, we looked at people that had about 11 million in net worth and we compared them to a group of people that had about half a million in net worth, which you're doing great. You're solid middle, upper middle class there. But these people had like 20 times more money. And we're like, we asked them, like, how much money are you spending on your house, your car, your watch, your vacation? And we were shocked to see that it was only twice as much.
Dr. Bruce Ross (18:11)
Mm
Dr. Brad (18:36)
You know, it was only twice as much. You'd think it'd be 20 times as much. But they didn't really suffer with the lifestyle inflation. That's one of the middle class thing that kind of keeps you stuck, you know, because you're never really growing that net worth. And so for us, we really want people to think about that when you spend money on stuff, you're actually losing your money. And the goal is to really own your time. And, you know, we talk about it in the book too, but my journey was buying an hour of my time.
You know, a day of my time, a week of my time. And that was the game for me real early on, is like, how can I get detached from this idea that I have to work every second for money and if I get sick I lose money. I mean, financial freedom was a huge driver for me. But the entire thing was about owning my time. And so that's the rich mindset. How much of my time can I own? The poor mindset is how much crap can I buy?
Adrian Brambila (19:28)
Everything is exp...
Brian (19:28)
That and that, no, no, go ahead, Adrian.
Adrian Brambila (19:32)
Everything is expensive to poor people because they trade time for it. So they want to get a PS5. It's $500, $600. They make 20 bucks an hour. They're doing math in their head. How much time do I have to work to buy the PS5? So everything's expensive. Groceries, everything, because it's how much time do have to work to make, to buy these things. And in a rich mindset, they're not trading their time for any object. They're buying investments and the investment income or they're creating businesses or this other income.
They're creating offers that pays for everything. So it's a, it's actually never expensive, whether it's a dollar or a $10 ,000. It's all based off that investment income. That's, that's the huge difference that we're trying to get people to. And trying to get people away from they're trying to level up to, get rid of these shiny objects of like trying to flex and buy designer brands or buying these things to create this image or facade of success. Cause really wealthy people don't do that. They consider themselves frugal.
Brian (20:26)
And I can't stress enough how important both of your messages are for what we do, right? I mean, we're focused on at Modern Husbands, essentially busy dual career couples, right? Both partners work nearly our entire audience is full of guys who recognize like their wife like you has, Adrienne has a big job, right? Dr. Klontz's wife, big job. you you can't have a happy relationship unless you're supporting one another fairly inside the home.
Dr. Bruce Ross (20:46)
Mm
Brian (20:54)
But more importantly, what matters is that we're always busy. We're always focused on like, how can we make the most of our time? Because all of us have careers, all of us have a situation that requires us to be present, like living in that moment. And if you look at life that simply of like, instead of accumulating stuff, how can you get money back? That mindset shift not only helps you build wealth because you become
more of a minimalist or at least have at least a little bit of that thinking. But you can also think about things like, hey, instead of taking my pay raise and going and buying a new car, let's buy a housekeeper once a week. So now we have more time with one another, or let's have somebody that just handles all of our yard work. Let's have somebody that we drop the laundry off to. Let's make sure that we instead of cooking every single day, we have like food delivery services. And I recognize these things are more expensive. But these things are us deciding we're going to
We're going to get our time back and use that time we just paid for to live our life with one another. And that mindset shift is so important. And the way that you guys explained it is critical for our listeners.
Adrian Brambila (22:03)
That's so good. feel like, I remember when I used to think I would never have a cleaner. There's no way. Like I can't imagine people do like, and, like, what kind of person am I? used to like almost, this was like the way I was raised, like, cause my parents are so, just Mexican. Like the fact you're going to have someone see your dirty laundry, your dirty clothes and you're going to like, was like, it was like an insult. I've had a cleaner now for like, I think five years. Best, best thing I've ever had. And now we have a house house assistant. I was,
Brad and I just went to New York to do some press for the book. And, I shared it just like a, like, silly example. He was like, tell me about your house assistant. What is this person doing? And I said her name is Shadi. She's amazing. And, like, here's what, this is such a silly example. I'm almost embarrassed to share it. I've never, I haven't shared this out, but I was like, so I just got this new grill. a hasty baked charcoal grill and it just came in the mail and I, I, pulled up the manual and I was like, my God, this is like five hours. I'm never going to be able to put this together. I'm not very handy person.
So then when I left in New York, was like, Hey, Shadi, could you put this together? And then when I got back from New York, it was all done. So like the house assistant, she's there to do essentially anything that I would have to do. Cause I think in terms of my financial freedom, I didn't work hard, save hard, sacrifice my twenties so that I could do chores. I don't, you know, that's, I want to spend my time doing things I love.
Brian (23:19)
Right. Right.
Dr. Brad (23:24)
Yeah, I would say that the mindset shift here is getting away from do -it -yourself -itis. That's what I call it. I still suffer from it, which is why Adrian's talking, you know, it's a low income, it's a middle class mindset. My dad grew up on the farm. It's like you couldn't afford to have anything done for you. You did it all yourself. It's ridiculous to not fix your own mower, you know, do everything yourself. My aunt did the taxes for everyone.
you know, in our family. so Adrian's over there. So Adrian's always, he's one the things I love about him and friends like him is when he's talking and I'm looking at him going, damn dude, like how are you thinking about that? Like, I don't, my brain isn't thinking like that. Cause I still suffer from this do it yourself, I just stuff. And I got to say this too, the best marital therapy I ever got was just like, fine, let's do a house cleaner. That has saved me at least 500 hours of
couples therapy, you know? And by the way, I've done a lot of couples therapy as a therapist. I'd much rather be the therapist than the client in couples therapy. It's brutal. But it's like, it's so, so interesting and cool. But the mindset shift is this. You have to be willing to ask for help. You have to be willing to outsource because you're going to hit a point in your journey where it actually is hurting you financially to not do that. And that's really the mindset shift for people. And I've seen many small business people who
They have that do it yourself -itis. They can't snap out of it, you know? And so one of things we talk about in the book is just so you know, rich people are more willing to ask for help. And it's like, whoa, really? I thought they did it all themselves. No, they don't do it all themselves. They're not trying to be an expert in everything. Like, the ultra wealthy, they have financial advisors managing their assets, guys. You know, they're not in their basement trading all day long. That's a poor mindset. They're not doing their taxes.
You know, because, you know, and that's a hardship for people, very often people start to have higher income, they start a business, they're afraid to hire a CPA to do their taxes, they're losing out on thousands of dollars. What would cost you hundreds could be saving you thousands. If you're freeing up time, doing yard work for eight hours on the weekend, which is a grind, and if you put that time instead to building a skill set or launching a side hustle, that's where your financial freedom lies.
It's not about, you you got to outsource everything along the way, but you need to be aware of this mindset because it is going to start costing you money unless you can snap out of it.
Brian (25:56)
But but like you said, when you started it, a lot of it comes from our upbringing. Like you, my father was also a farmer. He's a do it yourself or his favorite hat is the front of it just says duct tape engineer. So I grew up in a household where you just did everything yourself. And I don't think that we would have outsourced we outsource. The main things we outsource are once a week, we have somebody clean the house and everything outside never would have done that if I was married, or if I wasn't married. Like if I was single, I would have just just do it all myself.
But because I'm buying time for now to spend with my spouse, we make that investment and I look at it as an investment in our marriage, not necessarily just an investment in our time.
Dr. Bruce Ross (26:29)
Any questions?
Yeah, I can say like so.
Dr. Brad (26:39)
Well, that investing in your marriage will save you 50 % of your net worth. You know what I'm saying? So it's a really important investment.
Brian (26:45)
Yeah, well said. Yeah.
Adrian Brambila (26:47)
You
Dr. Bruce Ross (26:50)
up with this the mentality of never pay for something you can do yourself. like, so that's just the do it yourself. I just like, and I finally, I think because of probably with this podcast and stuff, and just through arguments with my fiancee of like, we broke down, we hired landscapers to do starting over the summer. And it's been great. Because it's opened up all this time. But also, like, there's not the
Brian (26:54)
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Dr. Bruce Ross (27:19)
mental or emotional energy expended. So it's not saving just the eight hours on Saturday. It's not, I don't have to plan around it. I don't have to be thinking about it. I don't have to be like, it's Tuesday. Like, it's going to rain now. When can I get this done? Do I need to leave work early to get it done? Like it's just eliminated all of this kind of emotional mental burden as well.
Brian (27:28)
Right.
Adrian Brambila (27:43)
think that's awesome. I was in Japan for pretty much half the year. And one thing I'm trying to change is a way of thinking where when I started outsourcing all these things, immediately I thought, well, now I have all this time to actually be more productive, to maximize, to optimize what things can I do. sometimes, and I think that what I learned from Japanese culture is like, they're actually not trying to make, like if you're in a coffee shop, they're not trying to count like in America, like,
How many coffees, what's the most coffees we can make today? They're trying to make the maximum amount. They're more of like, let's make a, let's make the best cup of coffee for every person that comes in. So when they like have this cup of coffee, like, wow, this was so amazing. It was made with love. So I think the mental clarity in your, in your aspect of like now not doing yard work doesn't mean like now what other work could I do? It, it like actually take the time to enjoy your life, enjoy the moment, enjoy the journey. It's just something I feel like it's not said enough. It's more of like.
Brian (28:23)
you
Adrian Brambila (28:40)
We're always thinking about our financial freedom goal and that end point. And it's really like, you know, one of our chapter titles of retirement is for dead people. And there's the sad data that when people retire, they lose purpose and what happens, they actually die after. it's like, we have to actually, and this is really hard for the Japanese culture and other cultures, not Western culture. This is not something that they would need to hear, but for us, we need to hear this. We actually do need to enjoy the process, the journey of where we're at now, even if it's in a position of debt.
And you're struggling. still got to enjoy the game and the process of the journey of, of, watching you grow. You have to enjoy the moments. So I think if you don't. And all of sudden you, just sacrifice a hundred percent of your life to finally get to this point. How it's so hard to then make this switch. Like, okay, now I'm, I'm here. I'm a millionaire. I'm going to switch and start enjoying my life. It doesn't work like that.
Dr. Bruce Ross (29:33)
Absolutely. Now as a college professor, I gotta ask this next harsh truth here. So if you want to get rich, go to college, get rich, and buy a house. Or not. What do mean by that?
Dr. Brad (29:50)
Yeah, so it was, it's, if you want to get rich, go to college, get married, a house or not. And really what we were doing here is the other thing that drives me nuts on social media is when I hear people peddling bullshit. And I actually consider myself fairly open -minded. And by the way, if you, you wanted to tell me I wasn't, I'd be very open to hearing how I'm not because I'd like to be more open -minded. And so when I see people say things like college isn't worth it anymore.
You know, my first thought is like, is that right? my gosh. And then I immediately go try to find out, you know, where's the data on that? And as soon as I see the data that college isn't worth it anymore, I will have a chapter that says, college isn't worth it anymore. We do not care. But the fact is, the average college grad makes about 1 .2 million more over their lifetime. Now, however,
We also in the book give you the 10 worst majors for making money and the 10 best. And the bottom line is if you go to college, if your goal is to go to college to increase your income, if you get certain majors, and by the way, they're all the great ones, the fun ones, the ones that do the best for society, unfortunately, you could be making less than minimum wage. You could be setting yourself up for a lifetime of struggle and debt you can't pay back. So college could be the absolute worst decision of your life. We also talk about
I also hear this all the time too, and this is more from the, I don't know what you would call this space in social media, but it's like this angry male, angry single male space, right? And it's all like, know, marriage isn't worth it anymore, women make you broke, and all this kind of stuff. And so I immediately go, is this true? And so then I go look, and it's like, well, actually, the average married person,
Brian (31:40)
Yeah.
Dr. Bruce Ross (31:41)
Yeah.
Dr. Brad (31:44)
between the ages of 25 and 35, somewhere in there, 10 times the net worth of the average single person at that age. 10 times. Now, when you break down the numbers a little bit further, for women it's 7X, for men it's 3X. So even for the men who are bitching and complaining, and by the way, again, is it true? I don't care, I wanna know if it's true. I'm a peddler of truth, mainly because I'm always looking to
Dr. Bruce Ross (31:51)
Ten times.
Brian (31:51)
Yep. Yeah.
Dr. Brad (32:12)
find what works for myself to adopt it and then teach as many people as I can three times in that work. And so I'm like, well, guys actually getting married. And you know, I grew up, my mom, I had a single mom for a while, you know, and like all the love to single moms out there. It's brutal. Okay. It was brutal. And we had no money and my mom had to have, we had to people come live in our house, you know, to help pay the mortgage.
And you know, I was in daycare. I mean, by the way, none of that's bad. None of that's bad. We all got to do what we got to do. But she had no choice in the matter. And she would probably made some different choices. We had one bathroom in the house and we're sharing the house with other people. But so anyway, it's rough. It's rough. And so when I would shut the door with my kids, I'd be like, hey, look, if you want to get rich, you need to stay in school, you know, and please get married before you have kids. And by the way, this sound, it sounds controversial, but
These are kids, we're not trying to shame anyone who has gone a different path, who had to get out of a marriage that was abusive, of course you do. Like financial freedom is not your first priority in that circumstance at all. You put that on the side and you protect yourself and you protect your family. Of course, we're not trying to shame anyone. We're just trying to give the stats, you know? And you know, we're pro -marriage. And by the way, we're also pro -staying married because that'll destroy your net worth. So get into couples therapy, it's way cheaper.
And then the house thing is an interesting thing because Adrian and I, this is the one area that we sort of had different opinions on initially. Yeah, is it a better investment to buy house or to rent a house? And I'll actually kick it over to Adrian on this because he actually has convincing data.
Dr. Bruce Ross (33:42)
buy a van,
Dr. Brad (33:56)
And by the way, we went back and forth on this one for a long time on the data too. But he's got data in the back that shows actually, you if you did everything the way a robot would do it, you're probably better off renting, but we're not robots. But anyway, I'll kick it over to you, Adrian, to talk about that.
Adrian Brambila (34:14)
Yeah, I feel like this is that open -mindedness. It's easy to say you're open -minded, but then when you get challenged, that's where, how open -minded are you? And so for me, I was on the far side of renting in terms of like growing your net worth and having the income. Renting is a better choice for longevity to try to have a higher net worth, trying to build wealth faster. And Brad would say, well, the data doesn't show that. then we did a...
math on like all the top cities in the U S and like what the average rent is, what the average mortgage is. And, and with there's some financial influencer contents, they're saying one thing, other people saying the others. And now I feel like I'm more moderate. and, really comes down to the human. We are humans. We're not robots. If you were a mathematical robot, you could, you could find places to rent and with the differences between like phantom costs and mortgage and interest.
You would actually have more money to invest with. And of course, if you invest in the S and P 500 over the long period versus putting that in your mortgage, you would actually make more money as your net worth, but no one does that. We're emotional creatures. so with, with someone is renting, they're not taking that extra savings and trying to invest more of it. That's just not what we do. No one does that unless they're like part of an extreme fire movement advocate. And instead what now I'm more moderate where I, what Brad has shared with me, it's like, here's, here's the reason why.
When you get a mortgage, it's forced savings. It's for savings. have to put that money in. Yes, there's interest. Like actually when I was in Japan this year, we came back on our AC wind bus and that was like a 15 ,000 bill. So again, I didn't plan for that, but it, but it happened that, but irrelevant of all that it's for savings every single month to a mortgage. and that that's the reason why people and most millionaires have, have homes is because of that. If you were a unemotional robot.
You could rent and you could have a higher net worth, but that's just not who we are.
Brian (36:14)
But the challenge is that for the everyday person, the greatest asset that they own, the most valuable assets they own is their home. And what's really disturbing for me is that the housing market, particularly in the last 20 years, has been really volatile, right? So following the financial collapse, one in four homes were underwater. Now it's only 1%. But people can't afford to buy a home. And so when you look at it from like that perspective, it's not as clear. I ran the numbers.
I was curious about this because I've been on both ends of the spectrum. Like when I was finishing up school in my final year, I was also working almost full time and I was renting by the room. And I don't know if you've ever rented by the room, but I was the only one in that house who was not out of jail and are out of prison and on probation. Then there was a shared kitchen. And I remember my friends are like, Jesus, Paige, you really went overboard on this one. But the rent was like $7 a month. I don't know. It was super, it was super cheap.
Dr. Brad (37:12)
I'm
Brian (37:12)
But you I had money that I was investing in my IRA and then I bought a duplex eventually, right? Now I realized that it's not normal to want to rent in a one bedroom rent by the room place. And when you have a family, you can't do that. But people like when you start to crunch the numbers, it's insane. I looked at it in 1983, if you were to buy a house for $70 ,000, that was a median price and go through
all of the different things that you would have to do, you'd have to pay insurance on that house, you're have to pay property taxes, right? You're gonna have to pay, obviously the mortgage, which over time, the house isn't gonna cost them twice as much. net so -called loss of that is about a half a million dollars, if you were to fast forward to today. But if you were to throw that money in the stock market, you'd have a net gain of, again, if you were to throw it just in the index fund in 1983, that the index fund, 1 .2 million, right? Just because, you know, when it,
thrown in the index fund, it's not taxed, right? As long as you put it in a Roth IRA, you're not paying insurance on it, right? You're not paying utility bills on it. But yet most people think, a house is the greatest investment. And so Adrian, I'm with you on this one. I think a house is like one of those things where for the sake of your marriage, if your wife or your partner or your spouse really wants a nice house, some things that you have to concede on.
But that doesn't necessarily make it the best investment, right?
Dr. Brad (38:40)
Yeah, for sure.
Adrian Brambila (38:40)
Finally, I finally found someone. We've done so we've done like 40 podcasts. This is the first time. Thank you, Brian.
Brian (38:48)
No problem, man. No problem. You lived in a van for a year. I lived in a place where you rent by the room with a bunch of ex convicts, but we sure as hell started making our money early.
Dr. Brad (39:01)
You know, it's so funny, Brian, because I know you hadn't read this chapter, but we actually have a chapter that's called Get a roommate, get on the bus, get sober, get bald, and get a side hustle or shut up about being poor.
Brian (39:13)
So, so my biography about about Brian Page.
Dr. Brad (39:19)
Exactly, exactly. You could do a little better on the bald thing. You're only part way there. But what we did is we get people who say, and again, this chapter was written with some, I don't want to say a little bit of sarcasm, but honestly, we get people saying, I can't afford to invest. I can't afford to invest. we just called bullshit on it. It's like, for most people, actually, no, you can. You're prioritizing other things.
You know, and we actually have a chart in there with using 10 % annual return over 25 years and the number of roommates you get and how many millions you would have. The biggest expense people have is rent. So it's $2 ,000 a month on average in the US. So we just did average numbers. How much money people spend on alcohol, we looked at the average. How much people spend on their car, we looked at the average. And then we looked at if you invested that instead over 25 years.
So essentially the numbers are that if you got a roommate in $1 .3 million savings for you. 25 years.
Brian (40:23)
Really? Over how many years? Okay.
Keep going. He's Brad. I want to hear that. 1 .3 million for a roommate, but let me, let me point something out. If your roommate, if you're married, like that roommates, an income earner, not to say that you should only get married for money, but, go ahead, go ahead, Brad. You've got 1 .3 million. If you get a roommate, what about
Dr. Brad (40:33)
okay, yeah. All right, so.
Yeah, if you got two, it would be 1 .7. And if you got three, it'd be 2 million. yeah, if you rode the bus, it would be 1 .2 million.
Brian (40:58)
What about a car?
Okay.
Dr. Brad (41:05)
If you stopped drinking, it would be $147 ,000. Yeah, drink on. And if you shaved your head, $200 ,000.
Brian (41:08)
That's it. Drink on.
I do, I do. I cut my own head. I don't know how it looks in the back, but it's a party in the front because it's free. I'm with you. I love the... I'm so with the money.
Dr. Brad (41:25)
So that's $2 .8 million more and that's not even counting the side hustle. Like if you hear that and you're like, screw that, I agree, screw that, so why don't you go make more money? I mean that's the other option. And that's what Adrian's expertise or one of his expertise is in is the side hustle. And he's taught me side hustles. As an example, my 11 year old son using one of Adrian's side hustles is gonna make an extra $5 ,000 this month.
Brian (41:53)
Tell us about it. I want to hear, we want to hear about this, Adrian.
Dr. Brad (41:53)
my 11 year old son.
Adrian Brambila (41:58)
All right, well, and we'll make this very specific so people could actually listen and do it. So there's a, a new type of business that has happened from Amazon. the short acronym is called UGC stands for user generated content. Amazon is constantly innovating how we shop. And so they introduced this new thing where they learned that when you go on Amazon and you buy something and the, and the company.
makes their official video, like let's say about this microphone. This is a Rode microphone. So the Rode company makes a professional looking video that why the Rode microphone is the best microphone you should get. People, don't really believe it because why would a company ever say something bad or real about the product? They're gonna paint it in the best light. And what they learned that was happening just organically is that people...
at for no reason other than they just wanted to share would create in the review section, their own personal review of like, Hey guys, this is the Rode microphone. I've had it for a few months and there was just a normal human talking about the Rode microphone. And they learned that people that would watch their unprofessional raw takes on the, made by regular people, like everyone listening here, they would actually increase the conversion rate of purchasing the microphone. So then Amazon started catching this and then they're like, wow, this is
Every person that watches these raw homemade videos, it's now increasing the amount of people that end up deciding to buy it. So we're, we, they made this official program and it's called the Amazon influencer program. I just want to be clear. You do not have to be influencer. You just have to be active on your social media to get in. And then, and then this is the work you take out your phone, you review everything in your house that you have on Amazon, and then you upload it.
to Amazon in the backend, it kind of looks like YouTube. You tagged the product. So I would make this video of maybe 30, 45 seconds talking about it. And then I upload it. And then it actually exists on Amazon. I want you go, next time you're on Amazon, go look at all the product images and you're going to see a regular human video of some random person. Like, wow, this is actually happening now. And then if you watch at least 30 seconds and buy, you make a two to 5 % commission of that product. So you don't have to.
Tell the world, don't have to go to my social media and say, guys, buy this microphone. Cause that's a different way of making money. This is actually all within Amazon. No one's going to even know you're doing this unless they happen to be on Amazon and buy a product that you happen to make a review, which is super small chance. But, just by reviewing stuff in my house last year, I made $43 ,000 and I have a, like, maybe like 500 products. definitely not a millimus anymore. That's what I realized from doing this. so I had 500, 500 Amazon products in my house and.
Brian (44:35)
Yeah
Adrian Brambila (44:38)
that made $43 ,000 just from those videos that I uploaded. also I want to say disclaimer. If you do this, doesn't mean that you're going to make $43 ,000, but I have a lot of, stay at home moms that are doing this and they're making, anywhere from 500 or 2000 a month from a range of 300 to 500 products in their house. And it's a very specific side. So now you know it and now you can try it.
Dr. Brad (45:02)
Yeah, I'll tell you this too, when I dropped my kid off today, this morning at school, there's another mom at the school who does product reviews. You've never heard of her. She's very small, has a very small count. And we exchange Amazon products today. We exchanged 25, so she gave me hers, I gave her mine. My 11 -year -old, he writes the scripts for the products. He does a shot list for the videos.
Brian (45:20)
That's smart.
Dr. Brad (45:31)
And I basically do the voiceover and then he edits them all. So he wanted a job to make money. I thought lemonade stand, I don't know. So I call Adrian. I'm like, you know, what is a transferable skill he can learn even if he doesn't make money. But yeah, so a big part of our message here is that you can afford to invest and maybe it's cutting down on expenses, which kind of sucks. I don't love it. It's not a great experience, but you could definitely do it.
or you could just look to increase your income. And so we give a lot of great ideas here. One of my favorite chapters is entirely Adrian's Brainchild, and it's people who binge Netflix without a side hustle will be poor forever. And what he did in that, which is so brilliant, is he looked at the top Netflix series, he added up how many hours it would take you to watch it, and then he introduced the reader to a side hustle that they could spend that time learning
Brian (46:22)
Okay.
Dr. Brad (46:29)
to increase their income instead. So this book is, it's all about mindset, but we get really practical too on how you can make more money.
Brian (46:38)
So there's one chapter title where I thought, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take this one. Cause even though Dr. Ross has tenure, I'm afraid I don't want to put him in a position where he has to ask this question. So the chapter title is, it's not your fault if you were born poor, but it's your fault if you die poor. Who wants to start with that one?
Dr. Brad (47:02)
Well, I want Adrian to talk about this, but before he does, I gotta tell you that I made a video with this about a year ago, and all I said was, I said, it's not your fault if you were born poor, but if you die poor, isn't it just a tiny little bit your fault? That was my video. And literally, one of the financial counselor organizations, somebody over there started a cancel campaign on me.
Brian (47:20)
Yeah, OK.
Dr. Bruce Ross (47:21)
you
Dr. Brad (47:29)
and started to post about me to hundreds of of financial counselors. And I heard this from somebody in the group saying, my God, Dr. Brad, they're trying to cancel you. And it was at that moment I knew that this was the perfect chapter title. So we went with that, Adrian.
Adrian Brambila (47:48)
So this is actually something my dad has said. I know you guys don't know my dad. I mentioned a little bit about his upbringing and story. Also, this is not an original quote. Like if you go and Google this, many people have actually said this or have had this line of thought. and the idea is, is we, there's recognition that we're not all born at the same spot. Some people are born ahead. Some people are born like I think my father with subpoena.
Poverty, my dad is someone that had to steal food because he was so hungry. like there's, and there's adversities. It's just true. That's why life is not fair. We don't start at the same place. but where we end, this is now you're talking about a journey of life. This is, this is like the platform that you're given or not given. What, what do you do with it? I, I, one thing that really bothers me in media and in our content as well, when,
I've been documenting my very first dollar I made in 2012. Actually it was 45 cents after working for two years and making nothing. And so I've been documenting from that 45 cents to, to basically this year. And now when people see me, they, they like, they're, they're so interested on what my privileges are. They want to know, like have me list every single privilege that I have. And that, that's what I hate. I don't, I don't like how there's so much energy and attention on what your privileges are. I, what I care more about is.
Okay. What, if you, if you had privileges, what did you do with them? Because there's people who are born rich that lose the money, right? Privilege is like your starting point does not determine your end point. I think that's actually a very empowering statement. If you weren't born rich, which I think is most people. So there's this, this extreme mindset of accountability of, of taking ownership of where you're at now and know, like, if you come from a lineage of poverty, like my, what my parents did had to come.
from that and to come to us, like they gave me a platform and like, have an immense pressure to not be a head. Like I, I, I never, like, I, I, I've never smoked anything. I never did any drugs. Like I waited for my first drink of alcohol. And my dad said we were in Dominican Republic and it was like the high school after I graduated, he's like, you want a beer before you go to college? Like, sure. Like I was, I played it so good because it would have been so disrespectful to, my family tree to basically.
be a moron. And so I had this immense pressure to do well. And I feel like that's, that's me. Recognize recognizing the privilege I have not, I'm not talking about general privilege, just like the family privilege that they, they, this platform they gave me. And, also my, my privilege doesn't guarantee that anything. And for my future, just is my starting point. So your starting point does not determine where, where you end up, but, taking what you have, what you don't have and, just dealing with the cards you're dealt. think that's a, an extreme immigrant.
mindset, but any successful person that, came up for nothing, that's the same mindset they have is like, Hey, like this is what I was born with, but it's not what I'm going to end with.
Dr. Brad (50:50)
I got to ask this to you, what kind of disgusting, horrible psychopath would give a kid or a young person any other message than that? I mean, what are you trying to do? So let me get this straight, you're gonna take this young person aside and say, hey look, no matter what you do, failure is your future.
You know, and it doesn't matter what you do, you know, I mean, what kind of psychopath would say that? It makes me so mad. This is the most empowering message ever. It's the most empowering message ever. And the irony here too is like, we're trying to reach people so this clicks. And by the way, for this clicks, you will do something about it. What we're not doing is sneaking into the room of a dying.
Brian (51:10)
You
Dr. Bruce Ross (51:18)
can see the steam coming out of your ears.
Dr. Brad (51:34)
broke 95 year old and saying it's your fault. Yeah, it's your fault. That's not what we're not doing that. Okay. This is an empowering message and I get really mad when people try to sell anything else other than this. To me, it's disgusting and it's hateful. And so again, we're telling you this because we love you. And if this clicks, you're like, well, first of all, yes, of course it's not your fault if you were born poor.
Brian (51:37)
You
Dr. Bruce Ross (51:38)
Yeah.
Dr. Brad (51:59)
You know, what does luck have to do? Luck has everything to do with your starting point. I mean, it's like you have no control over that. some religions say you do. I don't believe that. I don't believe you chose to be born in a family full of trauma and abuse and poverty. I don't believe that. I think it was just terrible, terrible luck, but it's entirely up to you where that story ends. And to me, that's an empowering message. It's, the opposite of shame. It's the opposite of doing any harm at all.
Brian (52:30)
Well said. I want people to make sure they know where they can find your book.
Adrian Brambila (52:37)
Awesome. we have one place you can get the book anywhere where you can get books available at start thinking rich, but, as a, as a thank you for allowing us to be in front of your audience and hopefully you guys enjoyed what you heard today. If you want more, go to start thinking rich .com slash modern husbands. And that's going to include a link for the book, but also some extra bonuses that we have just for anyone that came through the podcast for you guys as a special thank you for having us.
Brian (53:02)
Well, thank you for your generosity. Thank you for such an incredible conversation. I, we greatly enjoyed it. We could talk to you for hours. But I do want to end with one piece of simple and actual advice from today's conversation that you each have to our listeners, something that they can put into their lives or their marriages right now.
Dr. Bruce Ross (53:03)
Thank you.
Adrian Brambila (53:25)
I think if you're someone that is not investing, you need to at least invest $1. And what you'll realize is the process of doing that. There's actually a lot of work. You have to go onto a brokerage account, create an account, connect your bank account, fill out like an investor profile to say your risk tolerance is your goal. So there's a lot of work to actually do the work to invest the dollar versus always push it off. Like I remember the first time I set up a Roth IRA.
I invested and then I didn't learn until a month later that I actually had to select funds to invest in. Like, so I had just money in a cash account, did not know that. So you have to do the muscles, go through and create those muscles of doing it. And then second, if you already are investing, I challenge you to increase your investments by 1%. I don't think you're going to notice.
Dr. Bruce Ross (54:03)
and
Brian (54:13)
Brad, what about you?
Dr. Brad (54:15)
I love it. first of all, that was what I was gonna say. But I'll say this too, to add this to that experiment. Sit down and take a moment and come up with your top three financial goals. And it could be financial freedom. Maybe it's the car you wanna buy. Maybe it's a house. mean, it really doesn't matter what it is. But spend some time visualizing it.
Dr. Bruce Ross (54:20)
Yeah.
Brian (54:20)
Hahaha!
Dr. Brad (54:42)
And we've done this in experiments and we saw a 73 % increase in people's savings as a percentage of gross income after one hour of actually just getting clear about what they want. So get really crystal clear about what you want, picture it, draw a picture of it, cut out pictures of it, whatever. And then the second thing is set up some accounts for those goals. And then the third and perhaps the most important thing is even, make it a dollar to each goal at first, automate. So set up and automate it.
Money movement, so maybe it's, for now it's three savings accounts, maybe you're able to set up a Roth, mean, whatever. But automate that movement from your checking account to that account. some banks allow you to name it too, right? So go in there and name it like Financial Freedom Fund, or like European Vacation 2026, whatever it is. Because what we found is the more emotionally attached you can get to it, the more able you are to be able to override your impulse to spend money right now.
Dr. Bruce Ross (55:41)
Mm.
Dr. Brad (55:41)
because that's how we're wired.
Brian (55:43)
Now I've never done this, but I want to add something because you two shared a strategy where Brad's kid is using it in his life. And I want to add this because I'm really passionate about it. But if you have a kid who's earning income, set up a custodial IRA. And by doing that, you are now teaching your child how to become an investor. But more importantly, you're opening their eyes to an entirely different world. My youngest is 16 years old.
Dr. Bruce Ross (56:01)
Yep, totally agree.
Brian (56:13)
with $19 ,000 in their IRA already. And it's because they are, and it's not, I'm not preaching to them. They just love seeing their wealth grow. It's in index funds. And it's beautiful because most kids don't earn enough to be taxed. And then if it's in a Roth, they're not gonna be taxed when it's taken out. And when they apply for college, it doesn't count against any need -based aid. If they have the money in a savings account or a checking account,
That counts against them at four times the rate of their parents. But if it's in an IRA, it doesn't account against their need -based aid. And they can even use the money for their own college. So there are all kinds of opportunities that arise from that investment. So Brad, Adrian, Bruce and I are over the moon, man. This was such a great conversation. Start thinking rich. You've got to buy the book. Go to, what is the URL again?
Dr. Bruce Ross (56:45)
Yep.
Adrian Brambila (57:10)
It's StartThinkingRich .com slash Modern Husbands.
Brian (57:14)
Love it. Thanks, fellas.
Dr. Bruce Ross (57:16)
Thanks all. It was awesome.